Will 622 have better OTA Program Guide?

[dogpoobob]

Do you suppose that the 622 will do a better job of downloading information for those channels that now show "Digital Service?". I sure would like to know what's on the PBS-HD subchannel and the non-majors in my area.

 

[jrfuda]

I'm interested in this as well. What kind of issues do the current receivers have with providing a guide for OTA channels? Can you just "remap" a SD-local's guide to an OTA channel, or is that not possible?

I'm in San Antonio, which is on the "may get locals" list, so this might not be an issue for me for too long.

Speed dial waiting for February 1....

 

[Cyclone]

I really think that Dish has zero interest in fixing the OTA guide for digital channels. From their perspective, they sell "satellite" channels, and that is all they need to worry about. I'm sure that according to them, that this issue will resolve itself once HD LIL launches.

Of course sub-channels will still be wrong, out of market OTA channels on other satelites will be missing epg data, and so on.

The 622 will not likely be any better than any of Dish's existing HD receivers on this issue.

 

[smokejoe]

No Guide Data unless Dish carries channel.

I've discovered that Dish does not broadcast PBS HD. That means you cannot get program info for the station on any Dish receiver - even if you are receiving it OTA.
PBS HD has more HD programming in a 24 hr period than any other locally broadcast national network -not to mention its quality.
I've been told by PBS programming director that the station is available to Dish at no charge - just like the SD PBS channels.
Without it, I'll invest in stand alone DVR, dump Dish and save $1000 a year since 90% of what we watch are locals anyway.

 

[mdonnelly]

Smokejoe has discovered how to use cut'n paste.

My question is, who actually does have accurate EPG data on local PBS digital stations?

 

[osu1991]

My directv hd receivers have been accurate for 11.1(pbs HD) in Tulsa, since OETA stopped multicasting a few weeks ago. These are hooked to the dish just for guide info. As analog PBS 11 is totally different than the digital feed. If OETA starts mulicasting again then the guide is only accurate two or three days a week. I use E* for the rest of my sat and dvr viewing.

 

[RobertsD]

With my 811(and now 942) the guide works for the OTA channels that dish provides in their locals pack. The substations do not get the info, since dish does not carry them. It's the same way with the 622.

Dish has no reason to provide program info for channels that they do not carry, so they don't do it. Theres nothing wrong with that.

 

[waltinvt]

With my 811(and now 942) the guide works for the OTA channels that dish provides in their locals pack. The substations do not get the info, since dish does not carry them. It's the same way with the 622.

Dish has no reason to provide program info for channels that they do not carry, so they don't do it. Theres nothing wrong with that.

What is wrong (IMHO) is that Dish doesn't pass on the EPG from the PSIP data stream that the OTA stations are mandated to provide by the FCC.

Part of the marketing stratagy of the Dish HD DVRs is their ability to receive OTA digital but they won't tell you that in order to get any EPG info for that OTA, you have to subscribe to their LiLs package - which of course you probably don't need or want because you can get OTA signals. This of course means you can only set limited, manual timers for any OTA programs.

 

[navychop]

A lot of digital stations' PSIP just says "digital program" or similar. Dish may not be getting the info in the first place.

I'm a strong believer in only buying HDTVs with built in ATSC OTA tuners. Yes, the DVR function is in the STB, but the TV should be able to tell you if there is any valid PSIP data.

 

[waltinvt]

A lot of digital stations' PSIP just says "digital program" or similar. Dish may not be getting the info in the first place.

I'm a strong believer in only buying HDTVs with built in ATSC OTA tuners. Yes, the DVR function is in the STB, but the TV should be able to tell you if there is any valid PSIP data.

While I don't know all the technical aspects of PSIP, I do know the FCC had deadlines last year for afilliates to be following certain protocals of which I believe EPG info is one.

Also (although I can't vouch for other stations), according to a friend of mine who is the head engineer at my one and only local digital network station, they are following the FCC rules with their PSIP data stream and all STBs should be getting the guide info. If it's not there, it's because the receiver is removing it for some reason.

I know some of you don't want to believe it but I believe Dish is delibertly not allowing the EPG part of the PSIP data through to their receivers just because they want to sell you their own locals package.

 

[navychop]

Thanks for the laugh. Near DC the stations not long ago couldn't even get their channel mapping straight. Getting that done, and getting out EPG, are two different things. I'm not sure the FCC has specific requirements on EPG content- "digital program" or such may well suffice.

But don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree with your last paragraph. It's just not the whole answer.

 

[txfeinbergs]

This of course means you can only set limited, manual timers for any OTA programs.

Please tell me this is some sort of sad joke. I have just committed to switch from DirecTV to Dish because I liked the VIP622 (still waiting on receiving one) and was irritated with some of the recent directions DirecTV was going. If I can't use the VIP622 to record OTA channels via the equivalent of "Season Passes" on TIVO, then this DVR is useless. Please tell me this isn't so.

 

[navychop]

It isn't so.

NBR is coming. You'll be subscribing to DISH locals to get the guide, which is the main sticking point.

 

[Lifterguy]

My TV has a built in ATSC tuner, and I'm glad I don't have to rely on the PSIP data transmitted by the Pittsburgh stations. Most of them don't provide anything other than "HD Digital Programing" in the program stream. One or two do occassionally provide program data, but even those stations are inconsistent.

 

[KenSoren]

My 921 picks up the LA PBS OTA HD channel 28 PG infor just fine. There are two signals under channel 28 one a mirro of the SD broadcast and the other really nice HD programming, and both have program guide info.

I can also pickup the signal from Orange County PBS channel 50. The also have multiple sub channels. The channel that carries the mirror of the SD channel has a guide and the others don't.

That's all I can offer since I really don't know who does what to produce a program guide, but a logical conclusion would be that Dish passes on whatever info they get from the broadcaster.

 

[ScottChez]

When I had Direct they had Guide Data for everything OTA.

With Dish, there is No Guide Data in Omaha for:

UPN Omaha
UPN Nebraska (DMA 30 miles away).
PBS Nebraska
PBS Iowa (DMA 5 Miles away across the border).

UPN and PBS are common national networks, whats the hold up Dish network? It can not be that hard, direct TV has had the guide data for years.

 

[RobertsD]

Please tell me this is some sort of sad joke. I have just committed to switch from DirecTV to Dish because I liked the VIP622 (still waiting on receiving one) and was irritated with some of the recent directions DirecTV was going. If I can't use the VIP622 to record OTA channels via the equivalent of "Season Passes" on TIVO, then this DVR is useless. Please tell me this isn't so.

If you are subscribed to your locals through Dish, you will recieve the OTA programming guide for all the channels that Dish network provides. You can put your zipcode in on Dish's website, to see which locals they provide. All the ones that show up, are the ones you will get EPG data for on OTA.

NOTE: Even with the information that Dish provides, you will not get any information for the subchannels. For example, with my local NBC channel, the main channel(5-01) is SD, and (5-02) is HD. The main channel gets the programming information, but the subchannel which is in HD doesn't(even though it is the exact same programming). SO, if I want to record on the HD channel, I need to look at the main channels EPG info, and then set a manual timer for the HD channel.

 

[txfeinbergs]

Thanks RobertsD. That is weird that your HD channel is using a "-2". All of the Dallas high definition OTA channels have a "-1" i.e. 5.1 for NBC. I was hoping I wasn't going to have to pay the extra $5 for local channels from DISH since I can get my OTA's fine, but sounds like I will have to afterall. Not a big deal as I can live with that a heck of a lot more then not being able to record the OTA channels with anything other than manual timers.

 

[RobertsD]

Yeah, it's annoying that their HD is a subchannel. All my other Local HD channels have just one channel for their SD and HD(CBS, ABC, WB), meaning that the HD channel is the main one.

ABC has a couple of subchannels, but one is just wheather/news, the other is just in the testing phase right now.

With NBC, 5-01 is the SD channel, 5-02 is the HD channel, and 5-03 is a wheather/news channel. Since 5-01 and 5-02 have the exact same shows, I wish that you could tell the reciever to use the program info from 5-01 for 5-02, but oh well.

 

[jrfuda]

I agree, it would be great if Dish would let us map the guide info from their SD locals to our HD OTA channels... Heck, we're paying for those SD locals, and it would probably take them like twenty minutes to write the code and put it in the next update.

My DMA is on the list to get HD locals via SAT, so I hope it's soon... Hey, it's March 1st, isn't that when they were supposed to start working their way through the list?