Is one or both of the OTA Tuner inputs on the HR 20 powered?

[bookwalk]

I live in a fringe area and the outdoor antenna I use is designed to be amplified (powered) from the input into the receiver, so wondering if the HR 20's OTA input(s) are powered?

Noone at Direct seems to be able to tell me.

 

[William1]

No, they are not powered. You will need to install a DC power injector. One reason you have to do this is because not all inline amps require the same voltage.

 

[boba]

The HR20 only has one OTA input it is internally split for 2 tuners. No TV set or satellite receiver has a powered input that I know of. The Satellite input is powered and is frequently used with a diplexer to power the amplifier in amplified antennas. Because the AT/AU9 can't be diplexed you need a separate power supply for the amplified antenna. Most amplified antennas come with a power supply. Example a Winegard GS2200 amplified "batwing" comes with a 12V. supply but companies like VOOM ordered them without the power supply and used the receiver to power the antenna.

 

[bookwalk]

My DISH 622 is powered. I actually got the Batwing OTA from Voom--but, yes, it did not come with the power supply. So, the 622 powers it, but the HR 20 doesn't. Hmmmmm....

 

[jtn]

I live in a fringe area and the outdoor antenna I use is designed to be amplified (powered) from the input into the receiver, so wondering if the HR 20's OTA input(s) are powered?

Noone at Direct seems to be able to tell me.

I would be able to say the HR20 has built in amplifier, and doesn't need an additional amplifier, this will cause a conflict and worsen OTA signal quality.

 

[texasbrit]

I would be able to say the HR20 has built in amplifier, and doesn't need an additional amplifier, this will cause a conflict and worsen OTA signal quality.

No, the HR20 OTA tuners are designed the same way in general as all the others and may need a preamp at the antenna to overcome signal losses just the same way any other OTA tuner might require one. Depends on the signal strength of the stations, cable losses etc. The OPs antenna probably has a built-in preamp and simply won't work without it. Before the new 103(b) satellite started transmitting in the b-band, you could connect one of the cables going to the satellite dish so it supplied power to the antenna pre-amp, and also diplexed the OTA signal on the same cable back to the HR20 OTA. With the new signal, you can't use diplexing, you need a separate cable to the OTA antenna, so you lose the power to the built-in preamp, and therefore you need to use a power injector on the OTA antenna cable to get power to the antenna preamp.

 

[jtn]

No, the HR20 OTA tuners are designed the same way in general as all the others and may need a preamp at the antenna to overcome signal losses just the same way any other OTA tuner might require one. Depends on the signal strength of the stations, cable losses etc. The OPs antenna probably has a built-in preamp and simply won't work without it. Before the new 103(b) satellite started transmitting in the b-band, you could connect one of the cables going to the satellite dish so it supplied power to the antenna pre-amp, and also diplexed the OTA signal on the same cable back to the HR20 OTA. With the new signal, you can't use diplexing, you need a separate cable to the OTA antenna, so you lose the power to the built-in preamp, and therefore you need to use a power injector on the OTA antenna cable to get power to the antenna preamp.

If diplexing like you say doesn't work, why bother, and yes one connection to the antenna in (OTA) the HR20 works well without amplification, on both tuners, since you have only one connector for both.

I guess that it can be trial an error, if you don't trust what I say, then do what you want.

Keep in mind HR20's apparently have been discontinued so you will have to rely on HR21 without OTA built in, and wait for an external alternative to appear at cost.

 

[texasbrit]

If diplexing like you say doesn't work, why bother, and yes one connection to the antenna in (OTA) the HR20 works well without amplification, on both tuners, since you have only one connector for both.

I guess that it can be trial an error, if you don't trust what I say, then do what you want.

I am completely confused by what you are saying. The OP has an antenna that has a built-in preamp. With DirecTV, the usual way to use such an antenna has historically been with diplexing, where power to the preamp is drawn from a satellite cable connected through the OTA antenna to the dish, and the OTA signal goes back down the same cable. But you can't use diplexing any more because the OTA signals and the b-band signals from 103(b) are in the same frequency band, so the only way to use the antenna is to have a separate cable from the HR20 (yes, a single connector drives both tuners) to the OTA antenna.
But this also means there is no source of power for the OTA antenna (since the OTA connector on the HR20 is not powered), and the antenna won't work without power, so you have to provide the power by using a power injector on the cable to the OTA antenna. None of this has anything to do with whether or not the HR20 OTA is amplified (which by the standard definition of that term., it isn't). With the separate OTA cable and the power injector, the antenna and the HR20 will work exactly the same as it would have done with diplexing in the past (actually slightly better, because you don't have the diplexer losses)..

 

[jtn]

I am completely confused by what you are saying. The OP has an antenna that has a built-in preamp. With DirecTV, the usual way to use such an antenna has historically been with diplexing, where power to the preamp is drawn from a satellite cable connected through the OTA antenna to the dish, and the OTA signal goes back down the same cable. But you can't use diplexing any more because the OTA signals and the b-band signals from 103(b) are in the same frequency band, so the only way to use the antenna is to have a separate cable from the HR20 (yes, a single connector drives both tuners) to the OTA antenna.
But this also means there is no source of power for the OTA antenna (since the OTA connector on the HR20 is not powered), and the antenna won't work without power, so you have to provide the power by using a power injector on the cable to the OTA antenna. None of this has anything to do with whether or not the HR20 OTA is amplified (which by the standard definition of that term., it isn't). With the separate OTA cable and the power injector, the antenna and the HR20 will work exactly the same as it would have done with diplexing in the past (actually slightly better, because you don't have the diplexer losses)..

If your HR20's are failing, your in trouble, since they are being reported as discontinued by many sponsors and DirecTV. So you are forced to get HR21 without OTA. Eventually it will have an external alternative at your expense, added expense, which sucks, but it is a wait and see situation.

Good luck.

 

[texasbrit]

If your HR20's are failing, your in trouble, since they are being reported as discontinued by many sponsors and DirecTV. So you are forced to get HR21 without OTA. Eventually it will have an external alternative at your expense, added expense, which sucks, but it is a wait and see situation.

Good luck.

Now I am even more confused. Who said anything about HR20s failing, or the HR21 - that has nothing to do with this post. All we are talking about here is how someone can get power to his OTA antenna when it is connected to the HR20.....

 

[bookwalk]

When I called Direct re: my pending installation, I was told I could get a HR 20. I live in SD.

 

[jtn]

Now I am even more confused. Who said anything about HR20s failing, or the HR21 - that has nothing to do with this post. All we are talking about here is how someone can get power to his OTA antenna when it is connected to the HR20.....

It is something to consider the age of the device, before investing to much resources (i.e. Money that you have worked hard for) if it is going to break down eventually, sooner than you think.

Plan and think wisely is all I am saying.

 

[boba]

Bookwalk for an amplified batwing antenna you need a standalone power supply and a RG6 cable from the HR20 to the TV antenna. Go to Welcome to Winegard, Makers of Television Receptions Products, UHF/VHF TV, Home Satellite, Mobile Satellite/Antenna, Medical Telemetry and search for PS-9370. You can probably go to Solid Signal | DISH Network, Off-Air HDTV, Dish HD and Digtial Home Advantage, DISH1000 & DISH500 HDTV satellite multiswitches and home entertainment supplies & accessories to buy one. Forget the gibberish that JTN is posting he dosen't seem to have any idea what he is talking about.

 

[sptrout]

I do not know if any of the receivers mentioned in this thread have internal OTA amplifiers or not, but if any do, they will cause more problems that they would solve.

An amplified OTA antenna system is not a problem if properly designed. I have an HR20 (using diplexers BTW) and an amplified OTA system that drives both analog and digital TVs in multiple rooms in my house. An amplified OTA system is usually very helpful if you are splitting the OTA signal multiple times to feed several rooms, otherwise the cable and splitter losses will eat up your signal.

Commercial public safety radio systems (primarily 700-800MHZ), both digital and analog and combined A&D, have been using amplified receive antenna systems for years with great results. I know because I have design many, many of these systems for the major manufacturer of pubic safety radio systems in the US. These amplifier systems costs $10,000 - $20,000 each, but this is much cheaper than the alternative; more receiver sites. When properly designed, a good amplified antenna system can obtain the same results as if the receiver was actually connected directly to the antenna on top of a tower, even a tower far in access of 500 feet.

None of us here is going to buy a $10-20K antenna amplifier system, but if you follow some basic design rules, you can accomplish nearly the same thing.

• Use a high gain antenna, directional if you live in an area like I do (Houston) where all the TV stations have their transmitters within a couple miles of each other. The objective here is to get maximum "desired" signal while attenuating any "undesired" signals coming in from outside your primary viewing area.
• The first amplifier MUST be connected as close the antenna as physically possible. This usually means mounting the amplifier on the mast directly below the antenna. Remember that any signal lost (attenuated) between the antenna and the first amplifier is not recoverable.
• In commercial applications, we design the system so the gain of the amplifier system is 10-15dB more than the combined losses of everything between the top amplifier and the amplifier at the bottom of the tower (in the building). I would recommend a similar design if you can, but this may not be possible due to the limited number of available amplifiers in the public market.
• In commercial systems, we also have an amplifier at the bottom of the tower since we usually drive between 10-50 receivers from this one antenna system. The gain of this amplifier is set to be just enough to overcome the splitter losses and the final feed cable to each receiver (20+dB total, equals net gain of about +2 dB).
• If your system is like mine, you will have multiple splitters in the attic that split the OTA signal to feed several rooms. For one of my room OTA cable drops, I have a diplexer, with BBC, that feeds my HR20. I also have a second drop to my HR20 that comes directly from my 5LNB dish. I was unable to supply the recommended three-cable drop to the HR20 due to a firebreak in the wall. (I had the house built with two TV cable drops 11 years ago; one OTA, and one for DTV.)
• To provide the DC that is needed to power the antenna amplifier, I placed the DC supply/injector in one of my secondary, OTA only, rooms. Properly configured in the attic, this will keep the amplifier's DC power separate from the DTV cables.
• The room with the HR20 is my main home theatre room, and therefore has several devices that require OTA signal. (HR20, HL-S6188 Samsung TV, Denon AVR3300 for FM, and a VCR (yes I still have one; for the clock display…). To drive these devices I take the OTA output from the diplexer and feed it to a "0" gain amplifier (really an activate 4-way splitter). The output from this device drives all of these devices, both analog and digital.

The results of this antenna system are that I have strong analog and digital OTA signals to all my rooms. The OTA signal meter on the HR20 reads 100 on all but one channel and it is in the 80-90 range. (I probably should add a ~5dB attenuator before the active splitter). The signal from the satellite transponders are allover the place, but there is no difference in signal strength between the two receivers (one connected directly to the dish, the other connected through the diplexer arrangement.)

I am sorry for the long post, but I thought that it might be helpful to explain "how it can be done," and to show how your police and firemen can communicate with their small radios (its all in the receive antenna system!).

 

[harshness]

If your HR20's are failing, your in trouble, since they are being reported as discontinued by many sponsors and DirecTV.

At this point it time, your statement is false. The HR20-100 continues to be manufactured and there are likely many OTA able machines being refurbished and returned to service.

I share your concern and marvel at the stupidity of removing the functionality without an available solution.

 

[texasbrit]

Bookwalk for an amplified batwing antenna you need a standalone power supply and a RG6 cable from the HR20 to the TV antenna. Go to Welcome to Winegard, Makers of Television Receptions Products, UHF/VHF TV, Home Satellite, Mobile Satellite/Antenna, Medical Telemetry and search for PS-9370. You can probably go to Solid Signal | DISH Network, Off-Air HDTV, Dish HD and Digtial Home Advantage, DISH1000 & DISH500 HDTV satellite multiswitches and home entertainment supplies & accessories to buy one. Forget the gibberish that JTN is posting he dosen't seem to have any idea what he is talking about.

At last, a post that makes sense in this thread.
Completely agree with you, one cable from the HR20 to the antenna plus a power supply/injector equals a working antenna.

 

[Billusa99]

.................But you can't use diplexing any more because the OTA signals and the b-band signals from 103(b) are in the same frequency band, so the only way to use the antenna is to have a separate cable from the HR20 (yes, a single connector drives both tuners) to the OTA antenna. ..

That is not correct. It has been proven time and again that diplexing OTA on to a 5LNB dish cable works just fine, as long as the BBC is input after the multiswitch and before the diplexer. Then, diplex it out again at the HR20, one to sat and the other to OTA. (There is no reason the BBC has to be at the HR20 end.)

There's been a lot of threads on this at DBSTalk. It's working at my place right now.

 

[texasbrit]

That is not correct. It has been proven time and again that diplexing OTA on to a 5LNB dish cable works just fine, as long as the BBC is input after the multiswitch and before the diplexer. Then, diplex it out again at the HR20, one to sat and the other to OTA. (There is no reason the BBC has to be at the HR20 end.)

There's been a lot of threads on this at DBSTalk. It's working at my place right now.

I have mine working this way too, but you are missing a very important point. Where the sat cable is passed through the antenna, in order to give power to a preamp, the first diplexer is actually at the antenna, e.g on the roof. Since the bbc is not designed for outdoor use, putting the bbc on the dish side of the diplexer is not a valid solution.
(I know some people have put the bbc in outdoor enclosures but I would not recommend this solution to anyone).

 

[Billusa99]

I have mine working this way too, but you are missing a very important point. Where the sat cable is passed through the antenna, in order to give power to a preamp, the first diplexer is actually at the antenna, e.g on the roof. Since the bbc is not designed for outdoor use, putting the bbc on the dish side of the diplexer is not a valid solution.
(I know some people have put the bbc in outdoor enclosures but I would not recommend this solution to anyone).

Agreed. :up
I didn't miss that point, as I wasn't commenting on that point.