Grounding a new installation

[aldive]

A new system will be installed soon by a friend.

Question: The utility ground is on the other side of the home from the dish location; to ground at the utility ground would require over a 100 foot run.

Other ideas sought.

Thanks ...

 

[charper1]

Any pipe close or a Grounding rod maybe?.


How to PDF

 

[drbonbi]

A new system will be installed soon by a friend.

Question: The utility ground is on the other side of the home from the dish location; to ground at the utility ground would require over a 100 foot run.

Other ideas sought.

Thanks ...

Do NOT create a separate ground from that at the electrical entrance. Read the material here Grounding Satellite Dish and Lead-In Cables. Ideally, the system should be grounded by a licensed electrician.

 

[erict]

Yes you can use a separate ground rod but it must be bonded to your service ground with #6 wire:

 

[Joe Diamond]

This may help.
IF you have a crawl space or unoccupied basement you can run the cable with ground wire into these spaces and then ground to the main ground bond. It may save you a little cable run. Consider another plan to get the dish on the same side of the house as the ground bond.

Joe

 

[adampahl]

my installer stripped off the grounding cables as they passed my main breaker panel in the basement but failed to actually hook them to it. Everything worked fine but when i saw this i just connected them to a large screw holding the cover of the breaker panel on. Is this sufficient? How important is grounding and what does it effect?

 

[Joe Diamond]

What he should have done was: Make two service loops.
Cut at the center of the two loops.
Install fittings & connect to a ground block.
Connect the ground / messenger line to the ground block
instead of the panel cover
Connect a #10 ground wire from the ground block to the
ground bond
Clamp the ground wire to the ground bond.
Your system will work fine forever but is not correctly grounded. Experts disagree on the results of not having a correct ground for the system but the job calls for the above.

The other end of the wire attached to the sat line should be attached to the dish mast.

Joe

 

[erict]

What he should have done was: Make two service loops.
Cut at the center of the two loops.
Install fittings & connect to a ground block.
Connect the ground / messenger line to the ground block
instead of the panel cover
Connect a #10 ground wire from the ground block to the
ground bond
Clamp the ground wire to the ground bond.
Your system will work fine forever but is not correctly grounded. Experts disagree on the results of not having a correct ground for the system but the job calls for the above.

The other end of the wire attached to the sat line should be attached to the dish mast.

Joe

Joe I am a little confused as to what you mean by two service loops??

The first thing we need to know is where did the installer bring your coax in at. Was it near the service panel? The reason I asked this is it sounds like his point of entry with your coax was not near your service panel and he intended just to run a ground wire to your panel and ground it there or to a cold water pipe. As Joe stated above this will not affect your satellite service. The importance of grounding your equipment is not an electrical issue but a static issue. It protects your equipment from lighting in the area during a storm. While it may or may not protect you from a direct hit, it protects you from lighting in the area during a storm. Lighting gives off a static discharge even when it doesnt hit anything. Even lighting in the clouds cause this. Also this is what NEC (national electric code) calls for. With that said this is what I would have done under the two circumstances.

**If your coax enters near your service panel**
Install ground block at coax entrance.
Run #10awg wire from ground block to service ground rod and attach with split bolt.
Attach ground wire from dish to ground block.

**If your coax enters at a different point**
Install ground block at coax entrance.
Install new ground rod at coax entry point.
Bond your new ground rod to your service ground rod with #6awg wire.
Run #10awg wire from ground block to ground rod.
Attach ground wire from dish to ground block.

Under the first example you could use your cold water pipe instead of your ground rod if it's within 5 feet of your entrance point.

 

[erict]

I read your post again and it's possible that you are grounded correctly. It sounds like maybe your installer peeled back your messenger wires from the cables in your house(why I don't know). If everything is grounded correctly on the outside there is no reason to ground the messenger wire to anything on the inside.

 

[adampahl]

ground wires

Not familiar with some of the terminology but the is no ground block installed. I have two dual coax lines w/ground running directly from the dish through a hole in my wall to my receiver. The coax enters the house aprox 5 feet from the service panel and has to run directly above it to get to the tv. Directly above the service panel the dtv installer stripped off the attached ground wires from the two cables and pulled them over to the service panel ( only on the dish side, not on the receiver side). Hopefully he attached them to the dish seeing as though he forgot to attach to service panel.

 

[iwc5893]

Not familiar with some of the terminology but the is no ground block installed. I have two dual coax lines w/ground running directly from the dish through a hole in my wall to my receiver. The coax enters the house aprox 5 feet from the service panel and has to run directly above it to get to the tv. Directly above the service panel the dtv installer stripped off the attached ground wires from the two cables and pulled them over to the service panel ( only on the dish side, not on the receiver side). Hopefully he attached them to the dish seeing as though he forgot to attach to service panel.

If that's the case, then they didn't come anywhere near what is required by D* or NEC. I would call the installation company and have them send a supervisor/QC tech come out and take a look at it. If it's not up to code, have them bring it up to code at no cost to you.

 

[erict]

Not familiar with some of the terminology but the is no ground block installed. I have two dual coax lines w/ground running directly from the dish through a hole in my wall to my receiver. The coax enters the house aprox 5 feet from the service panel and has to run directly above it to get to the tv. Directly above the service panel the dtv installer stripped off the attached ground wires from the two cables and pulled them over to the service panel ( only on the dish side, not on the receiver side). Hopefully he attached them to the dish seeing as though he forgot to attach to service panel.

When you say (only on the dish side) do you mean before the receiver? Are you saying he peeled the ground wire back before he ran them to the receiver? When the wires enter the house there is nothing in between the cable run (no ground block)?

Nothing on the outside or inside that looks like this?
http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/GRR902.gif?osCsid=c8a11513db3c9ccd0cf81a5344cfdafd

 

[Joe Diamond]

The two service loops is just the way I work. What has to happen IS a ground block is attached to the structure. Then enough cable is allowed to make A service loop on either side of the ground block. Then you put on fittings and attach the cables to each side of the ground block. .....I just make all the loops at once, quick tie all the house lines and all the sat lines, and cut the fittings.

If you do ground blocks without a service loop you have all kinds of problems.......fittings get pulled out and water flows in etc.

The important thing is he skipped the ground block............unless he used a multiswitch elsewhere but the wire to the panel screw looked like an oversight.

The new ground rod idea gets mixed reviews. In some states it is just not allowed. In others a licensed electrician has to do it. It has to be connected by #6 wire to the main ground.....mas problama!

Joe

 

[adampahl]

No, there is not any ground block. And yes, there is nothing grounding the receiver. He just cut and pulled the ground wire back mid line and grounded it straight to the service panel. Otherwise the coax lines run continuous from the dish to the receiver with no splices what so ever.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I gotta say it first. "Your complaint is groundless. String up the defendant anyhow."

Whatever hits your dish hits your receiver. It could be years or never before you notice anything.
Should be fixed.


Joe

 

[erict]

The new ground rod idea gets mixed reviews. In some states it is just not allowed. In others a licensed electrician has to do it. It has to be connected by #6 wire to the main ground.....mas problama!

Joe

I see your were talking about service loops for the coax. Now I understand. As far as the separate ground rod NEC states you are able to do this for a static ground. I have never heard of any states that does not allow this under the circumstances. There are many homes that fall under this situation because of dish location in respect to service entrance and or ground location.

Adampahl, your install was not done correctly as far as the grounding goes. I would call back D** and request a service call.

 

[jacmyoung]

This is what I think, not an electrician so don't hold me to it.

I have seen enough dish installs to believe if you don't ground anything at all it sould be just fine, because while the dish is metal, the LNB and cables that eventually go into your house are well insulated and not connect to the dish.

Think about all the metal hoods on top of your roof, are they grounded? No because it is not necessary, what's under the hood is a plastic pipe going straight down your wall and ends up where your butt sits on But since the pipe is not conductive you are fine.

But if you want to ground it correctly, it is not to ground the dish, but the cables right before they enter into the house, and ground to your true house ground, not a separate pipe. And your metal dish itself should not be connceted to the ground wire. It is just a piece of metal sits on your roof like all the metal vents and fixtures.

 

[erict]

Grounding anything in your home does not guarantee safety from lighting strikes. The purpose of grounding the dish and coax is for static discharge. During storms if there is a lot of lighting in the area it can sometimes be close enough to create static in electronic equipment. Planes even create this energy under normal flying conditions. This is why airplanes use static dis chargers on the aircraft for there on board electronics. This is why it's very important to ground your dish and coax. It gives the static buildup a path to discharge. To give you an example we are all familiar with is what happens when you drag your feet on the carpet and touch something, zap!! You just discharged all that static buildup. Last year one of my co-workers grab a different chair to sit on and within one week he had replaced his phone headset four times. We finally narrowed it down to his chair in which every time he sat in it he built up enough staic that when he picked up the phone he would get shocked and it blew the headset. This is the purpose of the grounding your satellite equipment. Dish and coax.

 

[jacmyoung]

Static discharge, now that makes sense. In a direct hit there is not much hope, we are talking protecting against lighting strike nearby, which happens a lot more often. The only concern is I still do not believe the dish should be grounded, if such a large mental object is connected to the same ground along with the cables that goes in the house, it invites unnecessary danger.

Lighting, or static discharge, like to find the path of least resistance to touch down. Grounding the big adorable dish (or butt ugly dish depending on who you ask) does just that. As said earlier, grounding protects the electronics against static discharge, but we also do not want grounding to induce more chances for more hits.

Ground the cable before it enters house, but not the dish. Again I am no electrician and do not claim to know the subject well.

 

[jacmyoung]

And one more thing, I thought the point of using a quality surge protector is to avoid damage by static discharge? The ones actually protect the coax cables.