Problem with new setup, please help

[krisman]

so is it ok to go out and measure with a pole or something the directioon the dish is setting now, then turn the motor back to 0, and manually turn the dish to the direction it was in. will that work?

 

[gillham]

so is it ok to go out and measure with a pole or something the directioon the dish is setting now, then turn the motor back to 0, and manually turn the dish to the direction it was in. will that work?

Something like that should work, though you might need two poles to get a proper bearing.

If you setup USALS on the receiver and tell it to go to the reference position, it should end up at 0° on the gauge on the motor. That is useful to verify your motor is zeroed and your dish and motor form a straight line pointing towards True South. Then you can go ahead with finding your True South satellite.

Just to reiterate what was mentioned earlier, you MUST use the USALS feature of the receiver to tell it to go to the satellite you are trying to find. Once you have told the receiver to move to this satellite, DO NOT use any motor control, fine movement, East / West adjustment etc from the receiver. E.g. Allow the receiver to attempt to find the satellite via USALS and do nothing else except make sure the receiver is listening on a known active transponder. You probably will not get any quality since it sounds like you are not lined up to the arc. DO NOT do anything else at this point with the receiver in an attempt to get quality, except leave it on the active transponder. You might need to be on a "manual scan" screen on your receiver.

Go outside and rotate the motor on the pole until the dish is back to pointing roughly where it was when you were picking up the satellite. Using your two bearing poles or whatever you did to mark where the dish was pointing. Once you get quality on an active transponder, fine tune by moving the motor *physically* on the pole one way or the other to find the sweet spot. Move the motor in very very small increments. 1/32" makes a huge difference in where the antenna is pointing. You may also adjust the *dish* elevation at this point to optimize (peak) the signal. Again DO NOT make motor adjustments with the receiver at this point.

Once you have the receiver seeing good signal quality where it thinks the satellite is, you should be very close to lined up to the arc. You might need some fine tuning, but it should track several satellites and depending on where they are on the arc we can help you figure out what needs adjusting.

 

[krisman]

hello, the wind has been blowing so hard today that i couldnt do a whole lot. i did, though, measre the height and the direction that the motor was turned when it was getting good quality and turned it manually to the direction. which now, i am at 0 on the motor like you said and i am getting 69 signal and quality on nimiq 2 at 91w. i guess i am on the true south sat now but i will know when the wind stops for sure. how good of quality should i be getting on nimiq in order for the rest of the sats to come in and the motor properly moving to each of them? and how would i go about switching sats, just go to each one and choose "move to sat position"?

 

[Lak7]

Have you connected the switch yet?

Nimiq2 is aimed at Canada, so the farther South you are the weaker the signal.
I get around Q90, but every model of receiver reads a little different.
You do not want to have to manually drive to find each Sat, you want to be able to use USALS.
Setup Nimiq2 for USALS and have it move there, still have Q?
If not, twist the Motor on the Pole until you get Q, then use USALS to check another Sat like Nimiq1 @ 91 and Echostar7 @ 119, the Echostar @ 148 west would be even better to check, make necessary adjustments, but don't manually drive the Dish, only mechanical adjustments.

 

[krisman]

no thats one thing i havent done yet is to hook up my switch, i have no idea where to put the switch where it wouldnt be out in the weather, ive heard ur not supposed to get them wet. i did point to nimiq using usals, i chose go to satellite and it gave 45 quality and 69 signal. but when i scan channels it gives me like 8 of them and then goes back down to 0 quality until i choose 12239 tp i think it is again and then it goes back up, apparantly i still need fine tuning. so u say not to fine tune with the receiver but manually? im thinking i may pick up a cheap sat finder since i am doing this alone, are they any good?

 

[Lak7]

Until you get the switch in, or change to the "L" port, you can't finish the alignment.

goes back down to 0 quality until i choose 12239 tp

Not all TPs in a Sat List are active at all times, you have to pick a known Live / Active TP for the Quality meter to light up.

where to put the switch where it wouldnt be out in the weather,

Use long enough cables so the switch is under the motor.
Get the cheap small ZipLoc containers and pop a few holes in it.

so u say not to fine tune with the receiver but manually?

Mechanically. Let the receiver drive the Dish using USALS, tweak signal by twisting the Motor on the pole and Dish Elevation.

This is all easier if the can bring a small TV and the receiver to the Dish.

 

[mjs812]

This is all easier if the can bring a small TV and the receiver to the Dish.

That is the best tip. I just recently set up my first motor, and tried to avoid bringing a tv outside. Only because I didn't have something small to bring out, so I ended up lugging out an 27" tube out from the garage, and I'm glad I did. I was able to find my true south sat in about 5 minutes, that beats the hour plus I was walking back and forth.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Krisman,

My brother and I dug my SonicView 360 Premier out of my closet this weekend in hopes to help answer some of your questions.

There are several issues that we discovered that we want you to be aware of…

1] Your Fortec Star dish elevation pointer

2] USALS function in the SV 360 receiver

3] SV 360 tuner and front end receiver gain

4] Factory data for satellites and transponder data

5] Manual editing of the satellite and transponders

First point, you need to be aware that you need to use the leading edge of the metal plate that can be seen behind the semi-circular cutout on the dish to align your dish elevation and not the bolt or the washer. This is important.

Secondly, we found that the SonicView 360 Premier does not sport the USALS official LOGO. Without this LOGO, that means that SonicView either did not pass USALS criteria testing or they did not even submit the receiver to their lab to check it. The USALS lab has their own standards as they wrote the math and algorithms for the USALS motor positioning and if these criteria are not met, the receiver may not wear the USALS seal of approval. It is akin to the UL Lab seal of approval for electronic devices.

When we experimented with the SonicView 360, we found several inconsistencies and major errors.

The USALS operation was very erratic, unpredictable and totally erroneous. Sometimes the dish motor would pan west when it should have panned east. Sometimes it would not move at all, and here is the strangest operation... when we clicked on the "GOTO REFERENCE" the dish would move to the satellite position and when we clicked on "GOTO SATELLITE POSITION" it would go to the reference position. So that was totally backwards.

If you went to the DiSEqC 1.2 motor control it seemed to work properly, but you had to manually seek/search the satellite signal and then use the "SAVE/STORE POSITION" feature. This is how older receivers operated before the advent of USALS. If you did this for two, three or more satellites, then you could go back and select USALS and it would find the position of the other satellites with fairly good accuracy.

For a receiver with true USALS positioning, you need to enter your latitude and longitude coordinates and one satellite and then the receiver will calculate the position of all other satellites with just that information alone. For the SonicView, it appears that you need to locate several satellites and record their position using DiSEqC 1.2 control logic first, and the more satellites you locate the better… After two or three or more sats are entered in this manner, the more accurate the USALS function appears to become. This is obviously not a true functional USALS system. It appears that it is triangulating the position of all other satellites from what you manually locate through DiSEqC positioning. Therefore, it is not true USALS logic and why the receiver cannot wear the USALS LOGO.

Third point… We find that the SonicView 360 has a weak tuner/front end. If I align my dish for optimum signal on a weak station on a linear sat (lets use KTEL on 95W), the SonicView 360 will still not identify it. Obviously, the SonicView requires a stronger signal to lock onto.

The fourth problem is that the factory file appears to contain erroneous data for transponder frequencies and symbol rates. You can adjust for these errors, but that is yet another problem… I will address that shortly. We did notice that the SV has a blind scan option, but even when we know for certain that we are aligned to the optimum signal, the blind scan misses the TP and channels. If you enter the TP manually, and then perform a SAT SCAN (the red button) it will pick up the channels, but blind scanning does not. Therefore, the blind scan feature does not appear to function well or even at all.

The fifth point is manually editing the transponder and symbol rate information. This is an option, but it also has drawbacks. If you are not very quick with your fingers, it will not allow you to complete your entry or editing. Let me use this example: You want to alter the TP frequency from 11.720 to 11.740… You access the edit menu and start typing…

1….. 1………… You are done! You took too long to enter the third digit. You are now locked out of the TP frequency entry/edit line and automatically directed to the next line which is the symbol rate. Therefore, you now have a TP with a frequency of 11! You have approximately 2 seconds to enter your data (two seconds between each digit), if you stall too long, you are timed out. This is annoying and you must be aware of it, or you will have to retrace your steps and delete these erroneous TPs that you created.

I can see why you would be having troubles with this receiver. It was difficult enough taking a dish that is already aligned and setting this receiver up to work with it. I can see how horrible it would be to start from total scratch using the SonicView. It obviously is not user friendly.

With this information, you should be able to use the SonicView 360 and set up your dish, but it will not be a pleasant experience from what I see, but… It can be done if you have a lot of patience, dedication and determination.

I am hoping that some of this information will provide you with the information necessary to use the SonicView receiver for your FTA device. You have already paid for it, so you should continue to use it, unless it angers and frustrates you too much. If it does, I recommend the Coolsat 5000 receiver. This is what I use and I appreciate it very much. My favorite satellites are 72, 74, 97, 123, 125 and 129. 129 has only one channel (White Springs TV – but it plays classic oldies). I find other sats in the 80-90 orbital positions which are wild feeds/news feeds, but I don't watch them very often.

Krisman, I hope this information helps you out.

AcWxRadar

 

[krisman]

yes it does help me and thank you very much, i guess i should have done better research but its what the site recommended. ive not done any blind scanning and i have ran into the manual tp entry problem and the fortec star problem. what i did do was take my tv outside and try to get signal that way. and i did get 87 quality with nimiq 91w, and i did get channels finally. i stored it too. here is my problem now, when i click goto sat position, it goes to 0 quality again. and when i click goto sat position on 89w, i think it is amc or something. it passes by the sat just a TAD BIT, but the quality is at like 50 when it does pass. which means i need to turn the dish a tad bit to the west and maybe adjust elevation just a little bit? but i mean nimiq comes in great. oh and i tried going to the sat closest EAST of nimiq and nothing came in at all

 

[Wescopc]

AcWxRadar
Thank you for all of your research to help out krisman. You did this with your FIRST post, even though you have been a member for a while, I just wanted to welcome you so-





Bob

 

[AcWxRadar]

yes it does help me and thank you very much, i guess i should have done better research but its what the site recommended. ive not done any blind scanning and i have ran into the manual tp entry problem and the fortec star problem. what i did do was take my tv outside and try to get signal that way. and i did get 87 quality with nimiq 91w, and i did get channels finally. i stored it too. here is my problem now, when i click goto sat position, it goes to 0 quality again. and when i click goto sat position on 89w, i think it is amc or something. it passes by the sat just a TAD BIT, but the quality is at like 50 when it does pass. which means i need to turn the dish a tad bit to the west and maybe adjust elevation just a little bit? but i mean nimiq comes in great. oh and i tried going to the sat closest EAST of nimiq and nothing came in at all

Krisman,

I can possibly see two errors you might have made here. It is not that you are wrong, it is that the receiver seems to be wrong and inconsistent.

First of all, do not trust the GOTO SAT POSITION and GOTO REFERENCE POSITION features. They appeared to be reversed to us. When my brother and I selected the GOTO SAT, the motor went to the reference! When we selected the GOTO REFERENCE, it drove to the highlighted sat position!

Secondly, let us say that you don't have any satellites set up in the receiver's memory yet, so you are looking for the first one. Use the motor control like you were seeking the satellite out using DiSEqC 1.2 motor positioning logic. When you find the satellite and have it tweaked in for the optimum signal/quality level, then you MUST press the "SAVE/STORE POSITION" and then you MUST ALSO scan this satellite (using the SAT SCAN or RED button) before you proceed to another satellite. If no valid channels are scanned in, it doesn't seem to want to recall the satellite's position even though you did select the SAVE/STORE. It seems as though it requires at least one valid channel to be recorded for that satellite or else it ignores the sat position or cannot find it properly.

Repeat this process for at least two more sats. I would recommend that you begin with your nearest due south satellite first, then one sat approximately 10-15 degrees to the east and then one sat approximately 10-15 degrees to the west. Always making sure that you hit the SAVE/STORE POSITION and scanning channels before moving on.

With these three satellites entered, you can then select USALS in the motor options and go to about any other satellite and it will be almost right on the mark.

I found that this was necessary. Otherwise the dish didn't seem to want to move to a new position or it would not go back to the same position. It is rather quirky and takes some getting used to.

If it helps any, the NASA channel on 119W is always in the clear. I think this is a governmentally mandated rule. The NASA channel is channel 213 on 119W, Echostar 7, TP 12.370 GHz Vertical, SR 20.000 MS/s.

Since this is a circular polarity signal, it may make it easier to align the motor/dish. Circular polarity signals are more forgiving than the linear signals, so that helps during the alignment process. It will show up as Vertical polarity on the screen, but it is actually Right Hand Circular polarity that has been converted to a frequency band associated with linear polarity signals.

I always remember it this way... You can drive a Recreational Vehicle (RV) with your Left Hand (LH). Right circular polarity = Vertical linear and Left circular polarity = Horizontal linear... RV, LH.

I know that seems rather silly, but trust me, you won't get it out of your head and therefore you won't forget it!

One other thing that I observed is that when I request the dish to go to one of the stored satelites, it goes to the sat position, passes it by, then backs up and passes it by in the other direction and then goes to the actual sat location. It seems as though it is self aligning to peak the signal. If I can believe what I observed and I am correct on what it is doing, then this would indeed be a bonus!

AcWxRadar

 

[AcWxRadar]

AcWxRadar
Thank you for all of your research to help out krisman. You did this with your FIRST post, even though you have been a member for a while, I just wanted to welcome you so-





Bob

Wescopc,

Bob, thank you for the compliment and the warm welcome!

I don't usually say very much. I listen and learn, research and test. When I can help, I try to do so and I enjoy it.

Gordy

 

[krisman]

alright i think with all your help that i have found that i have to go about 6 degrees west and a tad up on elevation to be at the top of the arc. since my longitude is 84.5 and i am pointed at 91w nimiq with excellent quality. that makes it 85w amc i think for my true south and that is going to b very hard to find isnt it? since it is linear? well let me know all of my settings on the tp and all and i will drag my tv outside again and see what i can do. i am almost to the point of getting a sat finder for like 15 bucks. it might save a lot of time. what experience do any of you guys have with them?

 

[Lak7]

i am almost to the point of getting a sat finder for like 15 bucks

If it's the Finder I'm thinking of, it's a Signal Finder, it does not tell you which sat you're on.

 

[walrus1957]

alright i think with all your help that i have found that i have to go about 6 degrees west and a tad up on elevation to be at the top of the arc. since my longitude is 84.5 and i am pointed at 91w nimiq with excellent quality. that makes it 85w amc i think for my true south and that is going to b very hard to find isnt it? since it is linear? well let me know all of my settings on the tp and all and i will drag my tv outside again and see what i can do. i am almost to the point of getting a sat finder for like 15 bucks. it might save a lot of time. what experience do any of you guys have with them?

I never had any luck with the cheap signal finders, they only tell you there is signal and not which sat your pointing at. As far as a good satellite finder is concerned, I have always used the Coolsat 5000 and a small lcd screen, ran an extension cord out to the dish. It works almost as good as the expensive Super Buddy and is extremely user friendly. Of course if you can still pick the Coolsats up on ebay for $15, then you have a sat finder and a good all around FTA receiver!

Krisman, there are still several listed on ebay, one as a buy it now for $30! Hurry while supplies last!

 

[krisman]

i can get a coolsat 6100 new for 66 dollars and shipping, is this a good deal? and a neusat for 49. which is better?

 

[krisman]

coolsat 6000 i mean

 

[gillham]

i can get a coolsat 6100 new for 66 dollars and shipping, is this a good deal? and a neusat for 49. which is better?

Coolsat 6000 is better IMHO. That might be a clone and I think clones were around $30-$40 on eBay, check completed auctions. There is another thread about this receiver and clones etc. Check it out:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/158570-coolsat-6000-premium.html

A Coolsat 6000 blind scans really well and a number of people here use them or the 5000. I haven't heard much about Neusat myself.

 

[walrus1957]

Krisman,

Gillham is right about the clones, watch out for them. The 6000 is every bit as good as the 5000 main difference is the looks. If I recall correctly you can tell a clone by the color of the phono plug inserts. But how do you know until after you buy it. I know of one reputable company selling them new for $79.99, I have dealt with them in the past and know they are selling the real thing. However it still makes me a little uncomfortable as even the 6000 box was discontenued from manufacturing at the end of 2007. Leaves you wondering why online Company would still have a lot of these boxes new laying around in their warehouse. Have you checked with this sites sponsers to see if they had any 6000 units?

The features and menues from all I can tell are the same between the 5000 and 6000, even how it displays on your TV screen.

 

[krisman]

hey i found a coolsat 6000 on a radio website for 73 bucks, and one on ebay for around the same. both say they are not clones. what do u think?