OT thread about the OT posts :)

[GaryPen]

We're not allowed to recommend non-sponsors? Since when?

 

[iafirebuff]

We're not allowed to recommend non-sponsors? Since when?

HUH? What you talking about Willis?

 

[voomvoom]

PSB deleted Gabshere's post with the reason, "not a sponser here". I missed the post, so I don't know what was in it.

Al

 

[iafirebuff]

OK, I see it now. I did not know that was a no-no either. Hmm.

 

[GaryPen]

I'm not very comfortable with that action, personally. We are here to give each other advice regardless of who pays for ad space. Spam is one thing. But, simple advice is a horse of a different color.

In another thread, a few of us have pointed out our discomfort with what seems like an increase of deleted posts, which up until recently were not even noted like the one above. They just disappeared like an enemy of the state in Red China.

 

[iafirebuff]

Yes, I agree, so long as it is not spam, why the delete? I too thought of the forum as a place to exchange usefull information. I do not know what the original message said that was deleted, but if it was just the name of a source of a product or such, then I don't see the issue. If that is the case, I have seen lots of stuff mentioned on this web site that is not from a sponser, ie, links in addresses, information about product - Is Dish and Directv a sponser? Where do you draw the line as to what can be posted and what can't?

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the site here, but just wondering what can and can't be posted.

 

[PSB]

I don't give a hoot if you are "comfortable" with it or NOT!!!!!!!!

I am NOT a sponsor here. And I will remove any post that mentions PSB Satellite, its only fair to our sponsors who pay good money to sponsor us.

I PM'd the OP and set him straight, the mention of PSB was not removed so I deleted!

 

[iafirebuff]

Thanks for the clarification, Pete! Like I had said, I didn't know what the original said, but was worried. Although, I understand you want to be fair to the sponsors, but seeing how great and helpfull the FTA section is, it would be nice to be able to post when we purchase items from a reliable source, or post a source for an item we are looking for. This would include sponsors and non sponsors.

 

[GaryPen]

Well. Better go back and delete those posts mentioning Radio Shack, as well. I think I saw one that mentions Best Buy, too. (And Circuit City, Wal-Mart, Office Depot, Fry's, etc.)

You see, once you start censoring based on who spends money to advertise here, it gives a perception that SatGuys is no longer a source of impartial information.

What's next, removing posts that mention negative experiences with advertisers?

I'm not sure of whether the fact that it was your own company makes it any better or worse. I'm sure arguments can be made in both directions.

In any case, even though it's within your rights as a moderator of course, it was still a questionable thing to do, and certainly not in the best interests of SatGuys 57,000 members. I can't be the only one who feels this way.

Just to clarify...Just had to get it off my chest, and won't mention the above in the FTA forum anymore.

 

[Mr Tony]

Lets clear some things up right now.

In another thread, a few of us have pointed out our discomfort with what seems like an increase of deleted posts, which up until recently were not even noted like the one above. They just disappeared like an enemy of the state in Red China.

did you bother to wonder why they were deleted? I'll answer below since someone else has a question on it too

Yes, I agree, so long as it is not spam, why the delete? I too thought of the forum as a place to exchange usefull information. I do not know what the original message said that was deleted, but if it was just the name of a source of a product or such, then I don't see the issue. If that is the case, I have seen lots of stuff mentioned on this web site that is not from a sponser, ie, links in addresses, information about product - Is Dish and Directv a sponser? Where do you draw the line as to what can be posted and what can't?

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the site here, but just wondering what can and can't be posted.

Pete answered the question as to why he removed his name from a post

As for the "deleted posts", some of you aren't going to like the answer but honestly I really don't care.

Recently there have been way too many OT/political/rambling/just trying to be a smartass posts that do NOT belong in the area. Some of the stuff said in posts here shouldnt even be posted (maybe in the chit chat area or the "Pit" but not here). This is the free to air area where we are suppose to help people with their systems, not post political stuff, flames, or what seems to be all too common latelly, the "I have nothing better to say so I'm going to rable off topic" posts.

There have been way too many threads that have gone on for pages with off topic stuff. So we have tried to clean it up a little bit. I guess when I am reading a thread about helping someone setting up a system, I don't want to go through 3 pages of crap to find the good posts. So we have been trying to clean them up by removing the crap. Well now with the "show delete post" things that Scott figured out, now some of you have something new to whine about and that is "why was my post deleted".

If you want to have a chit-chat conversation with a member, do it in a PM or e-mail. Lets not post ramblings in a thread which gets it taken off topic.

I noticed something while I was gone this past weekend (apparently there were some OT posts here wondering why I wasn't online) and when I came back after 2 days there was less than a page of threads for me to check out in the main area (if I was gone a day there would be almost 2 pages). I have also noticed that a few of the longer standing members havent posted as much. Are the two a correlation or is there more to it? Is it because its getting colder out and most people don't want to set up a FTA system when its below 40F or are people just not posting anymore because they are afraid their thread may turn into a fluff thread where you have to skip 5 messages to get more info. I have been to other boards that have a FTA area (or just satellite in general) and its just that, satellite talk. The OT posts are kept to a minimum and are deleted if the mods feel that it doesn't belong there. Some off topic is fine but some of the threads have gone way too long with OT stuff.

I know some of you have issues with the mods because you feel we have a "power trip" by doing things like that but you have this all wrong. We didn't go to Scott and said "I want to be a mod". Myself & Pete were given mod access because at the time the FTA area was open (2 1/2 years ago), we didn't have mods in the area and hacking was running rampant here. So Scott gave us the "keys to the guest house" so to say and I feel we have done a good job keeping this area for legal free to air discussion. Now if we can get the ramblings/OT stuff cleaned up a little bit, then I feel we can have the best FTA site out there.

I will admit I have been known to have some OT posts but they have gone few and far between now. I try to help out people get their FTA satellite questions answered. And hopefully others will do the same too

If you have any issues or questions, feel free to PM me

-Berg

 

[Mr Tony]

Well. Better go back and delete those posts mentioning Radio Shack, as well. I think I saw one that mentions Best Buy, too. (And Circuit City, Wal-Mart, Office Depot, Fry's, etc.)

You see, once you start censoring based on who spends money to advertise here, it gives a perception that SatGuys is no longer a source of impartial information.

What's next, removing posts that mention negative experiences with advertisers?

We have no issues with people posting where to get items but Pete would rather not be mentioned. That is why he deleted it. Personal preference

I have said things bad about advertisers, even sponsers here. How many times have we bashed Radio Shack, BB, CC or other electronic stores. Thats not the issue at hand.

I'm not sure of whether the fact that it was your own company makes it any better or worse. I'm sure arguments can be made in both directions.

In any case, even though it's within your rights as a moderator of course, it was still a questible thing to do, and certainly not in the best interests of SatGuys 57,000 members. I can't be the only one who feels this way.

Just to clarify...Just had to get it off my chest, and won't mention the above in the FTA forum anymore.

Why is it questionable if Pete doesn't want people advertising his name because you can get stuff from sponsers? Have no idea where that came from.

 

[PSB]

The companies mentioned ARE NOT MODS here!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM!

We work VERY VERY hard bringing sponsors here and it has been mentioned its a COMFLICT OF INTERESTS to be both a MOD and have a satellite web site selling satellite products.


There will be a LOT more deleting of OFF TOPIC posts here in the FTA area, mark my words.

And it may be an idea for some members to start their own BLOG rather than post repeated off topic subject matter!

 

[iafirebuff]

Thanks for the clarification. It does kinda come off like we are being scolded for asking a question. I really like that the spam is zero to none on here. I feel we have a "family" like forum, and things sometimes get long winded. But unfortunatley, with remarks like:
"There will be a LOT more deleting of OFF TOPIC posts here in the FTA area, mark my words"
Sounds threatning. I think it will scare people off of posting. I know it will sure make me think twice before I post. It makes one feel like we should post :name/rank/sn" and nothing more.

I do not want to get into a debate on this, because I will not win. But if a person is so concerned about them being mentioned, why do they have their COMMERCIAL website in their sig? Most forums I go to do not allow commercial links in sigs.

Again I am not looking for a fight. I feel this is a very unfortunate thing to happen to ths forum.

 

[GaryPen]

To the original poster- I highly recommend Channel Master. I've used a few of the box manufacturers editors, but not Fortec, and they haven't compared to CM. The newest version 1.15 is available at http://www.sharpc.com/CM/Update.aspx

You can upload/download to Fortec Ultra/Lifetime models directly from the program. For Mercury II, you should be able to use the Fortec Loader to save it, Import into CM, edit, Export back to Fortec format, and use the loader again to send it back to the box.

On the subject of post deletion - While there is no place for religious and political ramblings in the technical forums, and no place for spam anywhere, a bit of humor or an occasaional tangent from the main subject is generally welcome by most people. It is often the so-called "crap" that makes not only forums like this, but life itself, interesting and enjoyable.

Also, if any mods (no names) are worried about the perception of a commercial conflict of interest, they probably shouldn't advertise in their sigs. I personally don't care whether they do or not. I think it's fine and acceptable. But, to condone one form of non-sponsor advertising, and prohibit another seems hypocritical. (I'll bet a dollar that the advertisers don't give a hoot, either.)

Anyway, that's really the last time I'll mention it in this thread. I swear. Way too off-topic for even me! Not looking for a fight either. Not even angry about it. But, I had to rationally point out the incongruity and hypocracy of actions like that. You guys do a darn good job. And, this is still a great site. Just didn't wanna see it sink to dbstalk levels is all.

Take care.

 

[iafirebuff]

My last post on this too... I want to echo waht Gary has said, my post are not a personal attack - I think the commercial link in the sig is ok, as is the posting of good vendors. I also appreciate the hard work the Mods put in here. I guess it is more the way it is handled, and the threats I have percieved from the post that rub me the wrong way. I hope the mods take a look at pm'ing folks that ramble on, get off topic, etc. I will probably be the first that gets a warning on this. This is not the first time I feel I have been "scolded" on here. I mentioned another FTA site once, was jumped, had post deleted, and had no idea why. A simple pm explaining what was up would have been great! For months I wondered, then found out the reason. Another time an issue came up with a hack post that got out of hand. We all got jumped for sending the hacker to someone for advice. I know that must get old, but this person seemed to take great pleasure in "helping" the hackers. Again, a simple pm, with a "hey guys. thanks for thinking of me, but let's just leave me out of it please) instead of a sh*t gets old attitude and jump the forum for it.

To sum up, then I will behave, I think alot of problems can be headed off before they snowball with a simple, friendly warning. Again, with forums, it is hard to tell sometimes the tone the person means by reading what they wrote.

 

[Mr Tony]

I broke off the OT posts from the other thread

Looks like a lot was said today. I'll finish up my part that we are working on some changes (you'll like them) in the FTA area. I don't want all OT posts to leave, but lets just keep them down a little bit.

The FTA area is an different animal than other areas of Satelliteguys. When I first got into FTA 3 years ago, there was very little info on FTA much less boards that dealt with the legal aspects of FTA. Most boards relegated us to the "General Satellite Info" part of their boards. Scott gave us the FTA area 2 1/2 years ago as a trial to see if this FTA thing is really worth having here at Satelliteguys. He made myself & Pete mods and we kinda took the ball and ran with it. I feel we have one of the best FTA sites out there.

So lets do what we do best-helping out people with their FTA questions

 

[iafirebuff]

This is by far the BEST forum of all that I frequent (satellite and non satellite)! Thanks for your hard work and keeping us inline

 

[BKP]

Yes, this is the best FTA forum.. I've been to 2 others with no where near the information as here.. Or the number of members...

And I understand where Pete's coming from..

Actually, this is the best satellite forum.. PERIOD...

Thank you, SatelliteGuys...

 

[PSB]

I guess I am the only person in the world that gets flak for being 100% genuine and above board, by not wanting to upset our GOLD sponsors.

Remember I am the person who brought/ negotiated with MOST of the gold sponsors to SatelliteGuys.US personally.

Guess I feel more responsibility there than most, not to mention I think I know how I would feel if I was a sponsor here and there was an under cover sponsors, looking for sales. Even when someone mentions a product I NEVER PM them like many vendors do. NEVER.

When someone asks if I sell a product I do not even reply!

Maybe it would be best and preferred to just spam PSB Satellite all over the forum, I have a funny feeling the same members would complain just the same.

 

[gabshere]

Well i guess i'm the cause of all this , actually i wasn't trying to cause any problems and i did let this message sit for a day while things settle down a bit so no one would get in trouble or banned to include me). I'm also about to meet my three months so i could appy to get in WUT. For me it all stems from a misunderstanding or two (and at least one was my fault) I wasn't intentually doing it and did get a pm , asked to stop ( and yes it was nicely) and have stopped. but i wasn't asked to remove. I think i can explain the misunderstandings .. but really don't think it would serve much of a purpose here. I know the MODS are doing a great job trying to keep the board clear. and this doesn't seem like a lot of work , but i know it is. As a former sysop of (and yeah i will show my age a bit) a BBS i know things can be a hassle . This is the best forum i'm been on or i wouldn't be here. and I have made purchases from several of the sponsors here. I also know quite a few of my post were in more causal conversation and i will try to improve on that and post those in a more appropiate area or PM
Thanks and I apologize for the misunderstanding