Cable recording question

[tomyo10]

I have basic cable to get network HD (no HD locals here), and was wondering if I can use the DVR to record shows from the cable side?

 

[Jim S.]

No. Cable stupidly decided to re-encode the OTA HD signals to QAM, and Dish didn't include a QAM tuner.

 

[boba]

Is cable really that stupid? If you want to record that programming you need their DVR at $10-15/mo. or a TiVo HD model and rent the 2 cards to make it usable on the cable system.

 

[Jim S.]

Yes, it is stupid. They should exist to serve the customer, not themselves. I can't stand people who try to defend offensive business decisions by saying that the customer should look at it from the standpoint of the businessman. If there were no customers there would be no business.

 

[mrlaugh]

I have basic cable to get network HD (no HD locals here), and was wondering if I can use the DVR to record shows from the cable side?

no. I'm in a similar situation to you. basic cable is free through my apartment. I can watch QAM on my LCD TV, but can't record on the dish DVR. just a few days ago woot.com had a HDTV pci tv tuner card that will record clear QAM, so hopefully it'll work and I'll be able to record the broadcast networks on my computer, at least, which is better than not at all.

for the broadcast networks, the FCC requires the cable companies that they be sent out in clear QAM, you only need the cable cards or their DVRs for encrypted networks like ESPN, Discovery, etc...

although, depending on how this card works out, I might just "move" to Sacramento where there are local HDs and pay dish the $5 to have it all in one place on their DVR

 

[Andrewwski]

Yes, it is stupid. They should exist to serve the customer, not themselves. I can't stand people who try to defend offensive business decisions by saying that the customer should look at it from the standpoint of the businessman. If there were no customers there would be no business.

Using QAM would serve the customer. If all stations were transmitted on ATSC, there would be less stations that could be transmitted. ATSC is not practical for cable usage. QAM is a standard and cable companies use it. You really should be faulting Dish for not including a QAM tuner in their machines.

It's not like Dish doesn't use a proprietary format either...

 

[Jim S.]

DVB isn't a proprietary format. Nagravision is, however, I've mentioned numerous times that American satellite companies should unbundle the CAM from the receiver so that subscribers can use whatever hardware/software they wish to receive and/or record the programming.

 

[JohnL]

Yes, it is stupid. They should exist to serve the customer, not themselves. I can't stand people who try to defend offensive business decisions by saying that the customer should look at it from the standpoint of the businessman. If there were no customers there would be no business.

Jim,

Businesses do not exist to serve Customers. They exist to provide a product or service which allows them to make a profit, that is all.

Why should any Cable company provide a specific service that allows another (a satellite company) to better compete in a market.

It does NOT make any sense for a cable company to provide an OTA source for a very small locals only fee so another company (Satellite) can yank away the far more profitable packages of channels.

I suggest you line up a lot investors to the tune of a few hundred million to half a billion so you can build a competing system then you can resell Local OTA HD service at a loss to all of the Satellite subscribers in your area. Limiting any possibility of making a profit. After doing so explain to your investors that those "OTA Leaches" deserve their Loss leading service and that making any profit is "OVERATED".

John

 

[Jim S.]

I suggest you line up a lot investors to the tune of a few hundred million to half a billion

Ah, right there's the problem. If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be concerned in the least with making more money. I think I'm physiologically incapable of comprehending the business mentality.

The reason why cable was invented, in case anyone's forgotten, was to provide a signal to people who had no line of sight to the transmitters. All this value-added crap came later. Which brings me to...

...the main reason why cable should carry locals in 8VSB: it's the way they're broadcast. It would ensure that all the subchannels got carried, the PSIP data didn't get stripped, etc. There should be no reason to have to have a QAM tuner in a TV that doesn't have cablecard capability, because most companies aren't providing anything other than locals unencrypted anyway, not even if they're doing a digital simulcast of their other basic analog channels. (Which is, you guessed it, stupid.)

 

[mrlaugh]

There should be no reason to have to have a QAM tuner in a TV that doesn't have cablecard capability, because most companies aren't providing anything other than locals unencrypted anyway, not even if they're doing a digital simulcast of their other basic analog channels. (Which is, you guessed it, stupid.)

last time I checked, the FCC required the local cable cos to carry analog service through 2012. Verizon FiOS started with analog for locals and PEGs (again, with digital in the background of those channels). they applied for and recieved an FCC waiver to turn off all analog signals, and will have that done by the end of the year.

and, surprise, surprise, the QAM overlay they use suddenly has enough space to be a winner in national HD channels provided, and with better quality than everybody else, too.

technology will happen, and QAM is not a bad standard. what will really help will be software encryption on QAM, but it's the content providers who want that even less than the cable cos. many of the restrictions on content are content driven and not provider driven.